Q&A: Structure by the Numbers
Q: I have a structure question that pertains to my notes from your Story Mastery seminar, and from your video with Chris Vogler, The Hero’s Two Journeys. You place the ALL IS LOST moment at 75%, but in Save The Cat, Blake Snyder suggests page 75 (about 68%) for THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL. So if I follow your formula, should I place the DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL at 75-80% and then the ACT THREE FINALE from 80% to the end of the script?
A: I appreciate your question, and sympathize with your struggle trying to reconcile two different approaches from two alleged experts. But here is my best advice: put away your calculator.
It’s true that I am very left brained, and I love using charts and lists and jargon in order to be as clear and specific as possible. But even I don’t regard plot structure as nuclear physics.
Your goal as a storyteller is always the same: maximize the emotional experience for your readers and audience. Generally speaking, successful movies place the turning points in close proximity to the percentages I talk about. But the numbers can vary a few minutes in either direction, depending on the number of heroes, the genre, the pacing, the budget, or a dozen other factors. And Blake Snyder (whose structural approach is very compatible with mine) might have meant something different than I do with his terminology. But I’m sure he would have agreed, and I know Chris Vogler and my other well-known associates do, that we want to guide you, not dictate what you must do.
So include the turning points (Blake’s or Chris’ or mine or any others that are helpful), but give yourself some latitude, and allow for some discovery as you write. Let the plot grow organically from your characters and situations. And most of all, concentrate on how well your stories reflect your own truth, and how deeply they touch others.
Thank you Michael (Mr. Hauge)
My personal view (if I may): If people really want to better understand how to write great stories, novels or screenplays: they should FIRST focus more on understanding the “why’s” (meaning: what is the PURPOSE of the: set up, opportunity, new situation, change of plans, all is lost, etc, etc) of all the suggested/recommended and/or necessary, plot points/turning points (i.e. story tools) in stories/scripts … versus the “where’s” of where *exactly* do they all belong?
(note: this “where does everything belong” is a trap .. a rabbit hole that will invariably lead you into a tunnel of confusion and despair [ because you can’t figure out how to make YOUR desired story FIT into the current plot point paradigm you’re trying to religiously adhere to; by trying to “paint by number” by the exact percentages or story minutes] likely causing utter frustration and more than often — quitting.)
Once you fully understand the WHY (their story FUNCTIONS), you need them … you’ll better understand WHERE to put them in YOUR story/novel/script.
My 2 cents … I sincerely hope that makes sense. (and helps)
First of all, thank you very much for replying. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to reply and give advice. So here’s my query…
I have a great passion for storytelling and particularly that which involves screenwriting (for Film and TV). I would love to pursue a career in writing, but I worry that this kind of career will not provide me with a reliable income. I understand that once you break into the industry, things can begin to change in that matter, though I am curious to know whether there are jobs that involve writing where you are full time employed as part of an organisation / the industry. I am not discarding the idea of screenwriting as a career, but I would prefer to carry this out in my spare time, hopefully proving successful in the long run, doing screenwriting alongside another relevant job.
I know finances shouldn’t be the focus of why you are writing and wanting to get your work out there. But I can’t help but think about them when considering this type of career. I’m sure you can understand that I will need a reliable income after university to fund my mortgage etc.
Whilst it is my dream to write Films and TV to be produced on screen, this one huge factor is holding me back and agitating my desire to carry it out. I just want to know the risks of taking up screenwriting as a career but also I would love to know if there are any other relevant jobs that involve writing / storytelling within the same industry? Or if by slight chance, there are screenwriting jobs where you can be permanently employed by a company?
Thanks again,
Matthew J
Great illustrative photo of Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind.
My (unwanted) advice is this:
You already played with the structure, so I think you partially know what you’re doing. So. My advice is, Don’t force it. Let the STORY reveal its self. Let it unravel to the story it IS, Not the shape you want it to BE.
You’re here merely to record what the characters are doing NOT what you’re doing to them. If the structure is slightly off, then let it be, because that’s your unique story, let it be unique, not some mundane/planed/numbered formula.
Because A story is an emotional journey, NOT a mathmatic equation.
Great advice as always, Michael. Thanks!
Thank you, Sir. It’s always been my stole, without even realizing it, to have my stories reflect my own truth, like you said, and have that truth deeply touch my audience, so they have a chance of caring for my characters conflict, goals and ultimately become their cheerleaders.
You are blessing to all of us writers, Michael.
I’m SO happy that you said you don’t ‘regard plot structure as nuclear physics.’ SO many do, and so many try to follow that kind of thinking at the cost of their story’s organic structure. Thanks for sharing this question and the wise answer. Great!
Hi Michael,
I get this same question all the time and agree with your response. I’ve said, “let the dynamic of the story determine exactly where those turning point beats hit.” But our responsibility as writers is to give the audience a regular up and down emotional roller coaster experience without a big flat spot where the coaster car would come to a stop up on the tracks. And to do that we want to get those points close to traditional and major turning points at 25, 50, 75 percent. That FORCES the writer to produce that rollercoaster experience in the macro scheme of the story that audience’s crave.
MICHAEL HAUGE ,
” … but give yourself some latitude and allow for some discovery as you write. ”
jaycalocci@gmail.com
always great to read what you have to say